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Author Topic: GIA or GÜBELIN?  (Read 3862 times)
RaffaeleT
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« on: July 28, 2010, 04:05:31 PM »

Everyone knows that GIA is the most reliable institution for the certification of white diamonds. GÜBELIN however, is considered the guru for the certification of colored gemstones.

For fancy diamonds, you who are considered more reliable?

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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2010, 05:42:14 PM »

I would rate them equally, with the proviso that Guebelin is mostly used for important stones (particularly for an assessment of whether colour origin is natural or not) and is not as well known as GIA.
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2010, 06:14:27 PM »

Great post RaffaeleT
The last part of OMC's statement is my prime consideration.
The fact that you'd have to explain to a vast majority of buyers who Gubelin is, makes them far less desirable, from my standpoint.
If you're going to sell at auction, then I'd say Gubelin is on par with GIA,  but not for "general consumption"

For example, I can still make a statement like "Accept no report besides GIA for fancy colored diamonds" with a fair degree of certaintly I'm giving the correct advice.
If I was going to add any additonal lab, it would be AGSL- however they rarely grade fancy colors
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David
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Sanchica27
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« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2010, 08:15:00 PM »

I want to add that I think I would represent an average consumer when it comes to jewelry and I have never heard of this lab.  I have known David for a few years and I trust him, if he presented me with a stone from this lab and explained what it was I would believe him because of the relationship we have.  However, if I was just shopping around for a colored diamond and a vendor showed me a stone with that cert I would definitely hesitate because I have never heard of it before.  I think that when it comes to most people that staying with something familiar is important especially when they could be a new customer who doesn't really have a relationship with the vendor yet. 
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clgwli
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« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2010, 09:01:49 AM »

I want to add that I think I would represent an average consumer when it comes to jewelry and I have never heard of this lab.  I have known David for a few years and I trust him, if he presented me with a stone from this lab and explained what it was I would believe him because of the relationship we have.  However, if I was just shopping around for a colored diamond and a vendor showed me a stone with that cert I would definitely hesitate because I have never heard of it before.  I think that when it comes to most people that staying with something familiar is important especially when they could be a new customer who doesn't really have a relationship with the vendor yet. 
+1  I totally agree with this.  I had never heard of this lab as well.
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Elaine aka Squiggly
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« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2010, 09:33:03 AM »

I've heard of Gubelin but I couldn't tell you where I heard about them.  Maybe from a Sotheby's auction ad?  Regardless, people go with what they're most comfortable with, particularly when GIA is based in the US and Gubelin is located in Switzerland.

Mikla
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ah2bqat
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« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2010, 09:43:07 AM »

well, this is a good lesson learned.  Here in the states, I may never see one IRL; however, it is good information to have that Gubelin is as reliable and trustworthy as GIA.

Good on you, Raffaele.  First post out of the box, and you've taught many of us something we had no clue about. bigclap
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RaffaeleT
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« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2010, 11:47:06 AM »

When Soteby's or Christie's do the "Fine Jewelry Auctions", the Top Lots have specified in the catalogue "GÜBELIN certificate".
The last important fancy diamonds, as "The Vivid Pink" and the Vivid Blue 7.03ct, had this reference.

The certificate costs are very high. Under 3 carats, the price ranges from $ 317 base + $ 86 for Clarity granding + $ 220 for Low-temperature analysis + $ 182 for Gemologist notes and determination for authenticity and treatments.  sultan


Good on you, Raffaele.  First post out of the box, and you've taught many of us something we had no clue about. bigclap

Thanks  Smiley pear2
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clgwli
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« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2010, 03:19:45 PM »

Holy smokes, those are some prices for grading there!!!  Not in a bad way but I can see why a lot of the fine jewerly auctions would use them more.  The cost of grading an expensive stone would warrant those prices where as a "regular joe" like me wouldn't be able to justify the expense.
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Elaine aka Squiggly
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ellie10
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« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2011, 03:44:52 PM »

As more of an average consumer, I would probably walk away from a Gubelin-certified stone. From everything I've learned so far, I wouldn't buy a diamond unless it was GIA-certified. The fact that they have the best reputation in the industry for their accuracy and strictness in grading is reason enough for me not to risk going with another lab--especially if I ever wanted to re-sell it!
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2011, 04:02:38 PM »

Why would you walk away from it (other than the fact that it's likely to be $100k+)?
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2011, 04:50:40 PM »

I can totally understand where ellie is coming from- I would have a lot of trepidation buying a high dollar stone without the GIA report.
Even one grade difference can make a HUGE difference in the price.
We are considering a few 2ct plus stones right now that lack GIA reports- but they are VERY well priced- and we will likely submit them to GIA if we buy them.....
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2011, 05:25:23 PM »

David - I think you are answering another question. What I was commenting on was this part of Ellie's post:

As more of an average consumer, I would probably walk away from a Gubelin-certified stone. [snip]

I don't believe you'd hesitate if the stone had a Gübelin report.

And to be honest, on some things, I'd walk away if they didn't have Gübelin papers - even if they had a GIA grade (and I had a hefty lottery win).
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2011, 05:31:05 PM »

I would not only hesitate- I'd stop. I would not buy a high dollar stone without the GIA.
If it had GIA and Gubelin, fine- maybe it's my NY diamond dealer roots, but I need to see a GIA report to feel comfortable with the color.
Furthermore, I don't recall seeing any cutter or dealer presenting mega dollar stones with a Guberlin.
So I'd have to advise consumers to do the same- based on my own feelings and experience.

ETA- Since OMC is in Europe, it's quite likely he'd have different preferences....
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David
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2011, 03:39:06 AM »

I think some of it is the NY outlook. Another part is thinking of auction vs. dealer-to-dealer. I am not competent to discuss the latter, but the auction catalogues regularly have multi-million dollar stones with Gübelin reports. And only those. The large auction houses are rapacious thieves, but not in the business of not protecting themselves or not marketing their goods properly... and Christie's, Sotheby's and Bonham's may be European in origin, but they definitely work on a global market.
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saqsay1
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« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2011, 05:48:10 AM »

Okay. You two intellectuals are confusing me. What is a Gubelin? Is it a super diamond grading company? I confess I have never heard of it. Even after being on this forum for a few years, I still find I have things to learn about diamonds..........
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2011, 11:11:16 AM »

It's a jewellery business which branched out in a gemmology lab quite a while ago. HQ in Luzern, Switzerland. "The" lab for coloured stones.
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saqsay1
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« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2011, 12:12:09 PM »

It's a jewellery business which branched out in a gemmology lab quite a while ago. HQ in Luzern, Switzerland. "The" lab for coloured stones.

But what about colored diamonds? Or do they specialize in sapphires, rubies, etc...
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2011, 02:03:39 PM »

They have a stellar reputation in coloured stones (i.e. "not diamonds"). My view is that this is matched on coloured diamonds; David's point of view is that it isn't. Take your pick... Grin
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Trinkette
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« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2011, 04:00:34 PM »

I'll weigh-in and say that I think one would be making a safe purchase with a Gubelin report. AS OMC wrote, they began as an in-house lab dedicated to assuring that the stones in their own jewelry pieces were what they said they were. Over time, the lab earned a reputation for reliable and well-regarded work with fine colored stones and it branched out to include gems submitted by others. I don't think the lab is as well-known in the US as it is in Europe, most likely due to its location. However, I do think it is generally highly regarded by jewelry industry insiders... perhaps less so in the very tight diamond business... I don't know. I see David's point. Anyway, as others wrote, you usually see Gubelin reports here and there for high-end jewelry pieces, especially at big auction houses (the question as to whether or not prices are completely inflated for high-end jewels at big-name auction houses is another matter entirely...).
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MASPA
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« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2011, 04:08:51 PM »

I agree with Trinkette, location will definitely create a bias here.
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Trinkette
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« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2011, 04:10:37 PM »

Another way to look at it: Right or wrong, I've always thought about Gubelin when it involves high-end jewelry PIECES and GIA when it is about individual, high-end jewelry STONES.  dontknow
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