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Author Topic: Questions about fluoresence?  (Read 6148 times)
Diamondsbylauren
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« on: November 12, 2007, 07:49:25 PM »

What are the implications of Fluorescence on gem quality diamonds?

The question is far more complicated than it might seem. A fair percentage of all diamonds mined exhibit fluorescence. I'd estimate the number at 15- 25%.
Here's why: Grading involves assessing desirability, or judging diamonds.
Fluorescence is an aspect which works in concert with other physical characteristics with some unusual results.

How does florescence affect a diamond visually?
A common question.

In general, here's the affect of GIA graded fluorescence on colorless, or near colorless diamonds:
 
Faint or Medium Blue Fluorescence: Can be noticed in a dark room when exposed to a UV light, but not under normal circumstances. May be slightly noticeable in direct sunlight or other bright lights.


Strong Blue fluorescence : Reacts heavily under UV light in the dark. In 25% of these cases, the fluorescence may be noticeable under any light source (though not necessarily in a negative way)
Likely to react quite strongly in direct sunlight, or other bright light sources.

Exactly what should one expect to see?
In the photo below, I've photographed a parcel of Asscher Cut Diamonds- the two which exhibit fluorescence are on the top left hand corner.

Likely I did not need to tell you where the fluorescent stones are- it's so obvious in a dark room with an Ultra Violet Light.
In the sun a colorless or near colorless fluorescent diamond may actually look a bit blue- depending on the degree of fluorescence.

Will my fluorescence Diamond Appear Mily, or Hazy in the sun?
Again, we need to look at degree.
On Faint, and Medium, we can pretty much rule out any milky effect- even in direct sunlight.
With Strong Blue, in a small percentage of stones you might get a hazy , or milky look.
This is rare though.





How does florescence affect a Fancy Yellow diamond visually?

Another common question. This one more difficult to provide a blanket answer to.
Let's start with lighter yellows.
In these cases, a medium or Strong Blue may cause a very chameleon like effect when viewed under different lighting sources.
Many Strong Blue light yellow diamonds which may look very yellow in normal room lighting will turn almost "blue white" in bright lighting.

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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2007, 08:03:37 PM »

HI Guys!
I'd love to incorporate your questions into a tutorial on this subject.

Anyone who has questions about flouresence, please post them.
I'll  answer and add the exchange to my initial post- I will remove the questions after you post them so we can garner them all together in one "super-post" All the questions and answers together, as opposed to a multi page thread.

how does that sound?
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2007, 08:35:09 PM »

What are the implications of Fluorescence on gem quality diamonds?

Faint or Medium Blue Fluorescence: Can be noticed in a dark room when exposed to a UV light, but not under normal circumstances. May be slightly noticeable in direct sunlight or other bright lights.

Strong Blue fluorescence : Reacts heavily under UV light in the dark. In 25% of these cases, the fluorescence may be noticeable under any light source (though not necessarily in a negative way)
Likely to react quite strongly in direct sunlight, or other bright light sources.

How does florescence affect a Fancy Yellow diamond visually?
Another common question. This one more difficult to provide a blanket answer to.
Let's start with lighter yellows.
In these cases, a medium or Strong Blue may cause a very chameleon like effect when viewed under different lighting sources.
Many Strong Blue light yellow diamonds which may look very yellow in normal room lighting will turn almost "blue white" in bright lighting.



Thanks for starting this thread David.
Here are my questions.

1. When you say that Faint or Medium Blue Fluorescence may be slightly noticeable in direct sunlight (or other bright lights) how exactly would it look? Can you describe it? Would their appearance be cloudy or "milky"similar to the glow in the pictures the ladies posted of their rings under a black light?
2. Also, you mentioned that Strong Blue fluorescence reacts heavily under any light source (though not necessarily in a negative way) and is likely to react quite strongly in direct sunlight, or other bright light sources. Is this similar to the above just more intense or do you see more of a blueish color therefore making the diamond appear whiter? Will flourescence cause the diamond to appear opaque under certain lighting?
3. Lastly, I understand that flourescence with a yellow diamond may cause it have "chamelion-like"  qualities...if someone loves the look of a "consistent" light yellow should they stay away from a yellow stone that has faint flourescence?

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evilmailjeep
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2007, 09:18:13 PM »

Can a diamond have more than one flour....can they react differently in different light sources? Do colored diamonds occur more often with or without flour? Do setters ever take flour into account when creating new pieces?
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Diamondluvr
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« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2007, 09:36:29 PM »

Does the presence of fluor ever increase the price of a diamond white or colored?
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2007, 08:49:47 PM »

Thanks for starting this thread David.
Here are my questions.

1. When you say that Faint or Medium Blue Fluorescence may be slightly noticeable in direct sunlight (or other bright lights) how exactly would it look? Can you describe it? Would their appearance be cloudy or "milky"similar to the glow in the pictures the ladies posted of their rings under a black light?
2. Also, you mentioned that Strong Blue fluorescence reacts heavily under any light source (though not necessarily in a negative way) and is likely to react quite strongly in direct sunlight, or other bright light sources. Is this similar to the above just more intense or do you see more of a blueish color therefore making the diamond appear whiter? Will flourescence cause the diamond to appear opaque under certain lighting?
3. Lastly, I understand that flourescence with a yellow diamond may cause it have "chamelion-like"  qualities...if someone loves the look of a "consistent" light yellow should they stay away from a yellow stone that has faint flourescence?



I think I got a good start on numbers one and two.....
If anybody has a good fluorescence photo, I'd love to see it and possibly incorporate it into the tutorial.
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2007, 09:24:07 PM »

Here's 2 pics of a ring I used to have.  It was a GIA UV and had med fluor I believe.  I loved this ring  Cry Cry


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annie1
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2007, 11:11:55 PM »



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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2007, 08:46:59 AM »

Here's my crazy FDY RB with Green Flour Smiley


* green fluor.png (46.45 KB, 200x190 - viewed 527 times.)

* green fluor2.png (53.24 KB, 200x190 - viewed 511 times.)
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2007, 10:02:37 AM »

WOW! That  is so cool!
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2007, 06:42:54 PM »

Cool shots guys!

What I'd love to find is a shot that shows the subtle blue in more of a normal daylight environment...
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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2007, 09:38:45 PM »

I was wondering if there are any rules with fluor and treated colored diamonds.  Do they fluoresce in a particular color with a certain treatment?
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2007, 10:36:23 AM »

Here's an O color RB with strong blue fluor. And a line bracelet which seems to have a few stones with faint or med blue, and one with strong blue.


My QUESTION:
IF all other aspects are identical in a diamond, what's the average price decrease for medium blue fluor?

And is that price fluncuation expected to be about the same for all of the colorless range? Colorless D-E-F, near colorless G-H-I, and for J-K-L and lower.



* rd_diamond2b.jpg (14.97 KB, 485x385 - viewed 111 times.)
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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2007, 03:50:55 PM »

Cool picture Rhonda!
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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2007, 04:04:42 PM »

Very cool pic!
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2007, 05:11:31 PM »

Hi All! IN considering this question, it occurred to me that a discussion of the effects of Fluorescence  Fancy Colored diamonds was complicated and different enough to separate the two discussions.
Seems like most of the questions were about Fancy Colors anyway, so let's go!
Here's what I've got so far, I'll start to answer more of the questions in the next few days!

THANK YOU to all who are posting questions-I really appreciate the input!

What are the implications of Fluorescence on gem quality Fancy Colored Diamonds?
This discussion will include light yellows from S-T through Vivid Yellow, Browns, Pinks, and any other Natural Colored Diamond


Is fluorescence bad?
Here's why: Grading is more complex than a simple Yes or No answer.  Grading involves assessing desirability, or judging diamonds.
Fluorescence is an aspect which works in concert with other physical characteristics with some unusual results.

An important note: IN a small percentage of fluorescent diamonds, the characteristic is so very strong as to make the diamond dull and lifeless. There's no mistaking this problem- anyone looking at the diamond would notice. This is extremely rare. Stones that suffer this effect trade for pennies on the dollar compared to a nice looking diamond that has Strong Fluorescence. We will exclude any diamond in this category from the following comments regarding Visual and Value

In Natural Fancy Colored Diamonds there are different shades of fluorescence. As in colorless diamonds.
GIA's Fluorescence Grades:
Faint: This has never proven to be an issue in any way- either from a visual, or a price standpoint.
Medium Blue ( or Yellow, Green or White)
Strong Blue, Yellow, Green or White

How does Medium, or Strong  florescence affect a diamond visually?
Any conversation considering all the different Natural Fancy Colors- as well as shades of those colors- will need to focus on many shades separately. For example, the effects of Fluorescence in Brown, as compared to Yellow diamonds are completely different.that occur in diamonds there's just so many answers to this one.

Let's start with Yellow Diamonds:

How does florescence affect a Light Yellow diamond shades S-T up through Y-Z?
I don;t recall seeing a light yellow with anything but Blue Fluorescence which is what we'll focus on.
Visual:
IN general- florescence will make a diamond look more yellow than it's actual body color indoors, but lighter outdoors- or in other bright lighting situations.
In lighter Yellows Strong florescence will cause the greatest Chameleon like affect. The diamond may look pretty darn yellow sometimes and almost "Blue White" at other times.
Is this desirable? Why not? A lot of folks actually look for this type of stone. Only in rare cases will this mean the diamond looks "dull".
Value:
Light yellow diamonds in these shades  are among the least costly of all the colors- so there's virtually no effect on the price for Medium or Strong Fluorescence


How does florescence affect a Yellow diamond shades Fancy Light Yellow up through Fancy Vivid Yellow?
Visual:
Here again, the medium and strong blue stones may actually look darker than the body color. GIA seems to take this into account- many "Fancy Yellow" graded diamonds, with strong florescence look quite like a "Fancy Intense Yellow" in normal room lighting. High content UV light- such as sunlight may lighten such stones a little- but generally these shades have enough yellow "oomph" to still have a Yellow appearance. In limited cases, the effect of  Strong Blue may be noticeable on sunlight.

Value: Here we start to have to consider the effect of GIA's issuance of Medium or Strong Blue on the price of the higher priced grades. In the shades of Fancy Light Yellow, Fancy Yellow, and Fancy Intense Yellow, the presence of Medium Blue may cause a 10-20% decrease in price, while strong blue may chop 25%-33% off the price.
Vivid Yellows are so rare- it's virtually impossible to chart a price curve.
I've also bought diamonds in these yellow shades where the Fluorescence was very hard to notice- even Medium or Strong- and other factors made the diamond worth as much or more than an "inert" diamond.

Brown and Pink Diamonds:
Coming soon.....



Click here for the Thread on florescence in white diamonds.
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« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2007, 05:14:05 PM »

I was wondering if there are any rules with fluor and treated colored diamonds.  Do they fluoresce in a particular color with a certain treatment?


I've steadfastly never gotten involved with color treated diamonds, so I could not know the answer to this one specifically.
I do know that many of the treated diamonds start as brown, so it might correlate with that part of the conversation.
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« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2007, 06:56:49 PM »

LOVE this kind of stuff!!
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Snooper
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« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2007, 05:08:12 PM »

The 3rd pic above really shows off the fluor! Really cool to see a white stone with fluor!!!
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« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2007, 12:34:30 AM »

I got a little stone from a pawn shop and it turned grey blue in the sunlight...was that flourecense???  By the way Ms. Fancy Pants has Medium Blue Flouresence...she looks pretty darn yellow. 


* pear3.jpg (133.48 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 89 times.)
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« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2007, 12:39:01 AM »

Yes, Ms. FP looks quite yellow even with med blue fluor!

I'm going to fix ms.k's ring pic (ala photobucket style) as I know she won't mind!
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Mrs Mitchell
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« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2008, 05:55:30 PM »

I've just had fun playing with my black light key chain, which arrived today. (Thank you David!)

My ering has quite strong fluorescence and so does my oval. The strongest I've seen is one of the stones in my eternity band - looks amazing! I'll try to get some pics at the weekend.

Quick question - do sapphires ever fluoresce? My earrings don't do anything under the blacklight, but the sapphire in my ring looks quite different. Am I imagining this, or can gemstones have fluorescence?

Jen
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« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2008, 06:50:49 PM »

Great question Jen, I do believe that sapphires can exhibit fluorescence
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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2008, 02:27:28 AM »

Thanks David, it was really interesting to see what it did under the black light. I'll try to get a photo at the weekend, because it was quite unexpected.

Plus, I have an exam on Monday, so more than happy to engage in that level of study avoidance. Grin

Jen
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« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2008, 02:32:53 PM »

david

what would a yellow fluo (med / strong) bring to a fancy greenish yellow diamond?
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