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| | |-+  Deep vs. Intense
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Author Topic: Deep vs. Intense  (Read 2113 times)
chellip
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« on: September 03, 2008, 10:58:46 AM »

I know this has been addressed somewhere...but for the life of me I cannot find it in my searches Undecided

So here's my question:
Where does the term Deep fall into the GIA grading scale?
For example:
Fancy LIght
Fancy
Intense etc....

And what difference does it make on the price?
ie. Fancy Deep Brownish Pink, Fancy Deep Brownish Yellow
Thanks all!
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Trinkette
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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2008, 11:08:18 AM »

Let's see if I get this correct:
Faint, Very Light, Light, Fancy Light, Fancy, Fancy Intense, Fancy Vivid, Fancy Deep, Fancy Dark. 

Did I get it right?
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chellip
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« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2008, 11:29:58 AM »

But the price doesn't necessarily go up up up in the order does it? or does it?
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Trinkette
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« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2008, 11:47:09 AM »

David is going to have to attack the question in terms of price.  I do know, however, that the more PURE a hue is, yellow, for example, as opposed to brownish-yellow (yellow hue with a brown modifier), the more coveted the stone. For the record, a pure blue is almost impossible to find... most have quite a bit of grey in them, more than the other coveted colored stones (and, I'm not sure that GIA even notes much grey in the blues they see... perhaps they are so happy to have something that appears "blue" that they don't mention the grey at all!). David has/had a greyish diamond that he said appeared blue... but, GIA called it grey.  I never saw it in person, but, since most blues we see are loaded with grey, this particular stone had potential to be the deal of the decade! I don't think they've ever found a PURE red diamond.

And, I would imagine that when a diamond's hue is totally saturated color (different colors have different color saturation points), the more highly it is prized.  For example, yellow seems to reach maximum yellowness (brightness) at about Fancy Intense.  Any darker, and the color begins to look less vibrant, perhaps more orangy, brownish or greyish. So, a pure yellow diamond, with no modifying color, at Fancy Intense or Fancy Vivid, should command the highest price for yellow diamond.  After that, the various modifying colors, orange-yellow, brown-yellow, green-yellow, and etc, are most likely placed in order of desirability based upon their overall appeal, as well as yellows with not-so-much saturation (Fancy Yellow, Fancy Light Yellow).  I'm not sure which would be most desirable after the "perfect" Fancy Intense Yellow - Fancy Intense Yellow with a color modifier (green, for example, would be something like Fancy Intense Greenish Yellow) or the less saturated pure Fancy Yellow with no modifier. Yellow with a grey or brown modifier is generally less pricey. However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?

And, to complicate all this, different colors reach their different saturation points - or most vivid and bright hue - at different places on the GIA scale.

Does this help at all? Or, have I totally befuddled you?

Welcome to the world of colored diamonds.  Roll Eyes
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Trinkette
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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2008, 11:55:08 AM »

 david

I probably screwed this all up...
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chellip
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« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2008, 12:02:56 PM »

Actually that makes sense....I think the blues (or blue/grey) have higher values at deep....i think, so each color it depends, right?
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Trinkette
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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2008, 12:10:33 PM »

Yes, but, again each color has it's own set of pricing parameters as well.  For example, yellow is most common and can be found in it's purest hue.  Red, on the other hand, in any tone or hue is extremely rare, and so far, I don't think anyone has found a red in "pure" red hue. It is usually pinkish red (which is silly, because pink is just diluted red) or purplish red. So, because of it's rarity, red with a modifier would be more valued than a yellow in it's purest hue. And, we haven't even considered weight, cut, finish, or clarity.  Isn't this fun? 1087
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Diamondluvr
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2008, 12:27:20 PM »

T-here's a GIA Fancy Red .21ct Rad, it's so gorgeous!!!


* GIA RED .21 ct RAD.jpg (63.81 KB, 340x340 - viewed 139 times.)
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2008, 01:58:47 PM »

HI Everybody!

Yes, it's complicated.
A few points though...
Red diamonds do exist- though they are the rarest color.
DL- have you actually seen that diamond? It looks amazing!


In terms of Yellow diamonds, Vivid is the top of the line.
A pure vivid is the yellowest a diamond can appear.
Fancy Deep Yellow is kind of like a "poor man's vivid" as they are generally a lot less than a vivid.
Fancy Dark generally has a touch of brown.

There are pure blue diamonds- with no trace of grey.
A Fancy Deep Blue is in a category of it's own- it can still cost hundreds of thousands a carat- of course less than a Vivid Blue- but it's no "poor man's vivid" if it's blue!
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Trinkette
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2008, 02:09:02 PM »

See, I knew I was right when I did THIS:  1087
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Trinkette
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2008, 03:04:29 PM »

OK, I've been thinking about this, and methinks I made a boo boo.  Sorry. I should sit this stuff out; but, the old artist in me just can't let the color theory go...

When I said that various colors reach their max saturation at different places on the GIA scale... that's incorrect.  By definition, ALL colors should be at their maximum brightness when they reach (as David said) Fancy Vivid on the GIA scale. Right?  It is just that the saturation for each color is different (ie, when yellow is 20 percent tone (tone is lightness/darkness), it is at it's optimum brightness, and, sapphire blue is 85 percent hue. So, 20 percent yellow hue and 85 percent blue hue should BOTH be at about Fancy Vivid on the GIA scale, shouldn't they? 

Of course, none of this is clear cut and it is all subjective anyway...  1087 1087

Sorry, I know what I mean, but I just can't express it in any meaningful terms.  Ignore me. Please.
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2008, 08:35:36 PM »

Hey T,
I think your perspective is extremely important- one of the things I love about this stuff is that "expert" opinions mean little if the person getting the stone does not love it.

Many people prefer an Intense to a Vivid- for exactly the reason that some people like a W-X just as much.

When I was training to be a salesman on the road, I was a driver for this French Guy....
He had some pretty funny sayings.

His definition of an Expert ( imagine a really thick French accent now)
"Ex is something that was, and spurt is a drip"
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David
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Trinkette
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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2008, 09:23:18 PM »

Thank you. Under the circumstances, I think that "something that was drip" describes me to a T!  icon_thumleft
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Mikla
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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2008, 09:45:51 PM »

Trinkette, I can't believe you're even saying that . . .  rock
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chellip
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« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2008, 09:08:44 AM »

Thanks everyone for the answers. Now one final one. So David had a parcel of brownish-pink cushions a while back (woulda, could, shoulda bought one) and I was wondering how the deep scale works with these?
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Trinkette
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« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2008, 10:01:20 AM »

 giveup

 david


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