win diamond earringsfancy colored diamonds colored diamondsfancy colored diamonds yellow diamond jewelryfancy colored diamonds loose pink diamondsfancy colored diamonds engagement rings fancy colored diamonds fancy colored diamonds fancy colored diamonds loose diamonds fancy colored diamonds diamond movies
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
February 05, 2012, 01:00:05 AM
Home Help Search Calendar recent diamond posts recent posts unread posts Login Register

News: This is the diamond forum for people CRAZY about diamonds. Although, we are heavily into Natural Fancy Colored Diamonds, we love the colorless, white & tinted diamonds as well. SEE FORUM RULES and our PRIVACY POLICY. DIAMONDS BY LAUREN WEBSITE see the FORUM PHOTO GALLERY and NEW ITEMS ON OUR WEBSITE.

See our Database Diamond and Gemstone Catalog.
Our Toll Free Number 1-877-952-8736. International callers 001-212-382-3770.
 
 Become a fan of ours on
diamonds by lauren on facebook


+  coloreddiamond.info
|-+  ABOUT DIAMONDS BY LAUREN
| |-+  Ask about the Rings or Diamonds we offer
| | |-+  sapphires?
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: sapphires?  (Read 1806 times)
shiba
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 367


« on: October 09, 2009, 08:04:32 PM »

I think my next project is going to be a blue sapphire ring.  But what do I look for to balance budget, size and quality?
Logged
oldmancoyote
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3536



« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2009, 07:05:08 AM »

There's so many factors, it's hard to decide where to begin. Leaving aside the metalwork and any secondary stones, and assuming a synthetic stone is not what you want, here's some questions/pointers for the sapphire itself:

Untreated or treated? Many sapphires are treated to improve colour and/or transparency. Obviously, stones that are treated are cheaper, but may be more brittle and/or the treatment may not be permanent, depending on how they have been enhanced. In general, mild heat treatment to enhance clarity is safe and totally permanent; titanium diffusion to turn a pale stone into a darker one is essentially regarded as "fake", and since the diffused layer is very thin it may be scratched or polished away should you ever need to re-cut the stone.

What colour shade? Blue in sapphires ranges from pale, greyish "northern sky" to very dark almost black "midnight blue". The most valuable tones are in medium to medium-dark, highly saturated blue and have a minimal amount of other hues (no brown, green or grey, but some violet may be seen as desirable). Valuable does not equal beautiful, though, and if you prefer the paler violetish-blue of many Ceylon stones, no-one can say you are wrong.

Where does the sapphire come from? There is a hierarchy of value - and to some extent of beauty - depending on where the sapphire (purportedly) comes from. At the top sits Kashmir, followed by Burma, Ceylon, Thailand, Madagascar and Australia. Montana sapphires of gem quality are highly prized, but also rare, and don't fall into a "value" hierarchy quite as readily for their other attributes, since they are typically small and relatively light in colour (although usually very limpid and bright). Be careful of deceptive claims by sellers such as "this Kashmir/Burma/Ceylon blue sapphire" seeming to imply that the stone is from Kashmir/Burma/Ceylon. It may not be, but its colour is (according to the seller) that of a typical Kashmir/Burma/Ceylon sapphire. Any claim as to geographic origin of a stone - and consequent premium price - has to be taken with a large pinch of salt unless accompanied by credible documentation.

Who has graded the stone? Lab reports for coloured stones are even more bewildering than for diamonds, since the number and type of treatments that the stone can be subjected to is much broader. At the same time, lab reports are nowhere near as common, also due to generally lower prices of coloured stones compared to diamonds. In terms of credibility, AGTA, Gubelin and GRS-Bangkok are for coloured stones what GIA is for diamonds. AGL/GCAL and GIA are also reputable, if much smaller in volume, although this may change since the closure of AGTA at the end of July 2009. While some of the differences in coloured stones are easier to grade than for diamonds (largely because the grading scales themselves are different), detection of certain treatments to enhance colour and indication of geographic origin require true expertise and expensive equipment. Only you can decide how comfortable you are with the seller's word about his/her merchandise, given the value of the purchase and the extent to which the value depends on the seller claims being true or not. In other words, if I was buying a 3 ct untreated cornflower-blue Kashmir sapphire, I'd want genuine proof of the claims. A fairly priced 1 ct heat-treated dark blue Madagascar sapphire may well stand on its own.

How is the stone cut? Most sapphires are cut - frankly - poorly. Partly this is because the main requirement in the market for a coloured stone is, unsurprisingly, its colour; partly it is because the miner or the upstream trader knows it can get a fair deal more money for a cut stone than for a piece of rough, but has neither the skill/equipment nor the financial incentive to cut it well; partly it is because sufficient buyer education is even less widespread in coloured stones than it is in diamonds. At any rate, the fact remains that it is more likely that a sapphire is cut for weight retention and colour depth than for liveliness and attractiveness of the stone while preserving colour. This tends to put a somewhat disproportionate premium on the (relatively) few stones that are both nicely coloured and well cut.

How big is the stone? Sapphire is heavier than diamond - roughly, a sapphire of the same weight (and cut proportions) of a diamond will appear 10% smaller. In addition, you have to consider that typical cutting proportions of sapphires are deeper than for diamonds, and that sapphires are on average cut with greater attention to weight retention than diamonds. Put all this together, and for a similar outline shape (round, oval, rectangle, ...) you'll need typically 1.2 to 1.5 carats of sapphire to have the same visual size as a same weight diamond. On the other hand, sapphire crystals tend to be larger than diamonds, and stones of 3+ carats are relatively common, with true rarity going from 10 carats upwards.

Apologies for the long post - but these are the six things that would be top of mind for me, and where I'd want some precise answers prior to buying. Of course, this all boils down to the two basic questions for any purchase:

1. Do I like the goods?
2. Do I trust the seller?

If the answer to both questions is yes, the decision is easy.
Logged
shiba
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 367


« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2009, 02:22:08 PM »

 notworthy

Thank you!

What about inclusions?  Gem quality vs loupe clean, eye clean, slightly included? I assume the least amount of inclusion commands a higher price, but are they like diamonds where there can be beautiful stones of lesser clarity?

Is there such a thing as a cut that is too deep? Some kind of a % range or dimention guide?

What about pricing?  How would I know if a stone is priced in the "right" range for the specs? 
Logged
candy23
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 22


« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2010, 09:55:46 AM »

The are various aspect you need to consider for sapphire - you can browse some of the article on web - which will help you to get the information you were looking for.

Logged
Mrs Mitchell
Member Moderator
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7365


« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2010, 11:04:11 AM »

Or you could just buy the ultimate sapphire ring:

http://rockdiamond.c...5bb557e874b3e87b9ed8
I truly love this one!

Can anyone tell me the definition of gem quality, btw?

Jen
Logged

Customer Service Associate
jennifer@diamondsbylauren.com
Mrs Mitchell
Member Moderator
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7365


« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2010, 11:06:19 AM »

This one is ticking all the right boxes for me:

http://rockdiamond.c...5bb557e874b3e87b9ed8
Logged

Customer Service Associate
jennifer@diamondsbylauren.com
ah2bqat
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2987



« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2010, 11:56:53 AM »

Or you could just buy the ultimate sapphire ring:

http://rockdiamond.c...5bb557e874b3e87b9ed8
I truly love this one!

Can anyone tell me the definition of gem quality, btw?

Jen

 notworthy notworthy notworthy  I love that one, too!
Logged

Auntie Dammit Heart DBL!
oldmancoyote
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3536



« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2010, 07:46:23 PM »

[snip]
Can anyone tell me the definition of gem quality, btw?

Jen

It's whatever the seller decides... Grin

It's vague, like "canary diamond" or "eye-clean". In general, it is taken to mean stones that are of excellent overall quality for the species - colour, clarity and crystal have to be of superior level for the stone to be considered a gem, and treatment/enhancement has to be none or minor. The issue is that none of the above are well defined or consistent across mineral species (an emerald with a few almost invisible inclusions is rare, and may well be considered a gem; an aquamarine with a few almost invisible inclusions is considered second rate - and they are both beryls!)
Logged
oldmancoyote
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3536



« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2010, 07:47:27 PM »

notworthy

Thank you!

What about inclusions?  Gem quality vs loupe clean, eye clean, slightly included? I assume the least amount of inclusion commands a higher price, but are they like diamonds where there can be beautiful stones of lesser clarity?

Is there such a thing as a cut that is too deep? Some kind of a % range or dimention guide?

What about pricing?  How would I know if a stone is priced in the "right" range for the specs? 

Shiba - sorry, I have only seen this now! Have you bought anything yet, or are you still searching?
Logged
clgwli
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2974



« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2010, 08:24:57 PM »

I love a good sapphire!  I am considering purchasing one in the future to replace an amethyst I have in a ring.  So I admit I am loving this thread and mooching off the info posted!

What kind of a look are you going for with your ring?
Logged

Elaine aka Squiggly
elaine@diamondsbylauren.com
shiba
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 367


« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2010, 09:59:54 PM »

No problem! I ended up getting a smaller stone than what I had originally planned.  I had been looking for a large radiant 3ct+ with a small belly, for a 3 stone ring.  Didn't have much luck finding the shape or cut, in the size and price point.  Pricing is all over the map.

But ended up finding a design than I really liked for a small stone, and David happened to get a parcel that resulted in this...




Logged
Mrs Mitchell
Member Moderator
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7365


« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2010, 10:23:06 AM »

OMG!
That is stunning. May I save that in my 'inspiration pics' folder please? I do love it.

OMC, I thought as much re gem quality, but I wasn't sure it didn't have a formal meaning. Thanks.

Jen
Logged

Customer Service Associate
jennifer@diamondsbylauren.com
saqsay1
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3252



« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2010, 11:10:47 AM »

great choice. is that a cushion? it looks lovely. at least you know you can't go wrong buying from DBL..
Logged

"If the US government were placed in control of the Sahara Desert, it would run out of sand in 25 years."
Mikla
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2586



« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2010, 02:15:48 PM »

Shiba, I love the ring!  I would have thought a sapphire would look too dark set like that, but you pulled it off beautifully!

Mikla
Logged

Diamonds make me jump for joy! bliss

My Gallery Images
clgwli
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2974



« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2010, 02:20:01 PM »

Oh very lovely!!!  I really like the color of the stone and the over all design Smiley
Logged

Elaine aka Squiggly
elaine@diamondsbylauren.com
Diamondsbylauren
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7931



WWW
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2010, 03:00:39 PM »

I love your photos Shiba~!!!!!
I also loved the ring- which was designed by Shiba, I might add!!!

Jen, I use the term "Gem Quality" in many ways.
In diamonds it's a wide term (ie industrial versus "gem quality"
But there is no fixed definition....I like OMC's answer too!
Logged

David
Check out our YouTube Channel
webmistress
Admin
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4552



WWW
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2010, 04:27:58 PM »

I love the photo with the ice, shiba. The handshot of course. We HAVE to have that.
Logged

Webmistress for http://diamondsbylauren.com
DBL Web Designer, CDI Administrator

  Dare to be different. See colored diamond rings.
shiba
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 367


« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2010, 09:39:35 PM »

Thanks!   Kiss
I didn't start a new thread for the reveal, I had just added them into David's "help me select some sapphires" thread.  GL made earrings out of stones from the same parcel and they turned out gorgeous too.  It is actually quite light for a sapphire but I wanted to see into the stone, and see the cutting.  A dark stone might have looked like a blob in this style of setting.  It is a 1.01 square cushion with step-ish cuts.

Mrs. M, you can certainly use the photos.  I have other inspiration pics that were used to design this ring which I would be happy to send you-  I can't take credit for the concept.  It is a W I D E ring, 11mm in the front and 8mm in the back.  I would even go to 13mm with larger mellee or a larger center.

Here are the other pics






Logged
Mrs Mitchell
Member Moderator
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7365


« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2010, 04:50:17 AM »

Thank you Shiba.
It really is stunning, I keep coming back to look at it - how on earth did I miss it?!

I love how shiny the metal is around the sapphire and the contrast with the diamond bands around the edges. I absolutely love it, what an awesome ring! Want one...
Logged

Customer Service Associate
jennifer@diamondsbylauren.com
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.16 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines Subscribe to RSS Feed http://coloreddiamond.info/images/rss-icon.jpg